[Wikimedia-l] YouTube shooting and risk assessment

Discussion:

Andy Mabbett

2018-04-05 15:33:16 UTC

I'm sure most of you will be aware of the unfortunate events at
YouTube's HQ a couple fo days ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_headquarters_shooting

Without giving away anything that might reveal vulnerabilities, does
the WMF have contingency plans for such an incident? What about at
community events in the US, and elsewhere?

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

Vi to

2018-04-05 16:08:57 UTC

Permalink

I read/receive related craps
<https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Vituzzu&diff=prev&oldid=831949995>
on
a daily basis but it's hard to tell an idiot from a psychopath, so it may
become a risk for WMF offices.

Vito

Post by Andy Mabbett
I'm sure most of you will be aware of the unfortunate events at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_headquarters_shooting
Without giving away anything that might reveal vulnerabilities, does
the WMF have contingency plans for such an incident? What about at
community events in the US, and elsewhere?
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

Gnangarra

2018-04-05 23:59:54 UTC

Permalink

Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria that needs to be
addressed when bidding for any WMF event, the people bidding are the better
placed to assess the reality of the local situation. Open bidding
processes enable others to also critically look at the options, ultimately
we are more at risk at home where feel comfortable then when travelling.
Every location has its risks, its undesirables, and crime, just getting a
taxi to and from the airport is a risk reality is its also more likely than
a terrorist event

On 6 April 2018 at 03:24, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <

That's why people offwiki say they don't discuss this thing on meta or
here, because you always have an "answer" like this... this sarcasm. in
it's way, an example of an unhealthy community.
"Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you try to do it
mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a certain
point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police and so
on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO. but it
should be done."
that's it. it's not complicated... I know because of partially direct
experience... it's part of the world, when you are professional. You can't
prepare an event of certain scale and in a certain areas and ignore it in
the final dossier. There will be someone who take a look at that. So, who
talked about "solving terrorism"? just the one who wanted to make a joke.
Maybe people are not big babies and even without constant reminder they
don't exaggerate. You have no idea with whom I discuss this aspect so far,
what such wikimedians do in their real life. They are able to focus on the
point... the point is security and if you replied this way to this question
in many situations, you will be considered unprepared.
Alex
I heartily agree : build that firewall, and let Cisco pay for it !
Wait, what were you suggesting in your incipit ? Oh, right, "a way that's
rational, avoiding to create unnecessary panic of course".
I'd rather not ask of people organizing conventions (which is already
time-consuming by itself) that they solve terrorism in their town, which is
what the police are probably more suited for, if you don't mind ; as a
matter of fact, it is not one of their duties as convention holders, plain
and simple, and neither are they doctors, police officers, judges, jesters,
masseuses, nannies, yoga instructors, cooks, indentured servants, etc
(except of course if they are, which may happen).
So let's please not overreact, and stick to the current discussion instead
of having the next WikiConvention in a flying fortress with armed guards,
sniffing dogs, and metal detectors at every door…
Roger / Alphos
2018-04-05 18:40 GMT+02:00 Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
I remember we discussed 2 or 3 years about this scenario with some
wikimedians off wiki. I strongly support to discuss at least once openly
about that. In a way that it's rational, avoiding to create unnecessary
panic... of course.
Despite the claimed neutrality of the communities, reality always bites.
Now, a terrorist can imagine that we will not put a black banner if someone
kill a lot of people somewhere... but if same amount of wikimedians are
killed at a international rally the probability that a block ribbon, an
editnotice with a statement appear on many language edition is higher. it's
an attack at the community like it is a proposal of a law somewhere, and we
naturally react stronger.
It would be a bigger impact, if you think about it. You can get the
attention of billions of people every time they connect to the 5th or 6th
largest website in the world. Cynically speaking, if you also consider the
facts that it's about free knowledge and volunteers, than a mass murder at
at a wikimedian event might be more "effective" than at a discotheque or
the seat of a multinational conglomerate.
If i remember correctly. in the months before a certain wiki-event, many
people linked to radical activities were arrested in the area, in the same
country. So, when you organize an event, it's not just about safety but
also security. Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you
try to do it mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a
certain point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police
and so on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO.
but it should be done.
A.M.
I read/receive related craps
Vituzzu&diff=prev&oldid= 831949995>
on
a daily basis but it's hard to tell an idiot from a psychopath, so it may
become a risk for WMF offices.
Vito

Post by Andy Mabbett
I'm sure most of you will be aware of the unfortunate events at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ YouTube_headquarters_shooting
Without giving away anything that might reveal vulnerabilities, does
the WMF have contingency plans for such an incident? What about at
community events in the US, and elsewhere?
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
______________________________ _________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

--
GN.
Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again:
Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8*, UWAP, 2017. Order
here
<https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8>
.

Philippe Beaudette

2018-04-06 02:34:22 UTC

Permalink

I can not speak to current practice at the WMF, but I can speak to practice
when I was there (ancient history, long ago, I know) when I say that this
is something that was carefully considered and there were appropriate
experts consulted at the time. Knowing the team there like i do, I'm
confident that those plans have not lapsed, and that they continue to give
appropriate (though not paranoiac) consideration to the realities of the
world.

I also know that when I was there, we would have considered it
inappropriate to share detail about those plans publicly, and I continue to
believe that is good practice.

Philippe

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:19 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <

Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria ... agree, but the
risk assesement we are discussing here is not about safety, but security. I
am sure we might not use them all properly, I am also not a native English
speaker, but they are not the same concept, right?
Now, there were examples where looking at a dossier where the information
was about only the first one... that's the point here. I am talking about
events, the first email was about the place of the office... but the
motivation of a criminal act in both case can be overlapping, so they are
an unicum in a proper evaluation, IMHO. I am not expert in the field, but
if you start to assess the risk of someone harming you in SFO, that could
happen also in another place where many of the same people gather annually,
and that you also inform millions of people with sitenotices about it.
Now, I don't say that you must inform a lot. But if you are not the police
you are also not the fire brigade, but you wouldn't write in a candidature
nothing or simply "if there is a fire someone is paid to extinguish it"...
you would make more effort, and we do. If you don't want to add another
paragraph in the final document, rename it "safety and security" but start
to think organically about it.
Alex
Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria that needs to be
addressed when bidding for any WMF event, the people bidding are the better
placed to assess the reality of the local situation. Open bidding
processes enable others to also critically look at the options, ultimately
we are more at risk at home where feel comfortable then when travelling.
Every location has its risks, its undesirables, and crime, just getting a
taxi to and from the airport is a risk reality is its also more likely than
a terrorist event
On 6 April 2018 at 03:24, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
That's why people offwiki say they don't discuss this thing on meta or
here, because you always have an "answer" like this... this sarcasm. in
it's way, an example of an unhealthy community.
"Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you try to do it
mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a certain
point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police and so
on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO. but it
should be done."
that's it. it's not complicated... I know because of partially direct
experience... it's part of the world, when you are professional. You can't
prepare an event of certain scale and in a certain areas and ignore it in
the final dossier. There will be someone who take a look at that. So, who
talked about "solving terrorism"? just the one who wanted to make a joke.
Maybe people are not big babies and even without constant reminder they
don't exaggerate. You have no idea with whom I discuss this aspect so far,
what such wikimedians do in their real life. They are able to focus on the
point... the point is security and if you replied this way to this question
in many situations, you will be considered unprepared.
Alex
I heartily agree : build that firewall, and let Cisco pay for it !
Wait, what were you suggesting in your incipit ? Oh, right, "a way that's
rational, avoiding to create unnecessary panic of course".
I'd rather not ask of people organizing conventions (which is already
time-consuming by itself) that they solve terrorism in their town, which is
what the police are probably more suited for, if you don't mind ; as a
matter of fact, it is not one of their duties as convention holders, plain
and simple, and neither are they doctors, police officers, judges, jesters,
masseuses, nannies, yoga instructors, cooks, indentured servants, etc
(except of course if they are, which may happen).
So let's please not overreact, and stick to the current discussion instead
of having the next WikiConvention in a flying fortress with armed guards,
sniffing dogs, and metal detectors at every door…
Roger / Alphos
2018-04-05 18:40 GMT+02:00 Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l
I remember we discussed 2 or 3 years about this scenario with some
wikimedians off wiki. I strongly support to discuss at least once openly
about that. In a way that it's rational, avoiding to create unnecessary
panic... of course.
Despite the claimed neutrality of the communities, reality always bites.
Now, a terrorist can imagine that we will not put a black banner if someone
kill a lot of people somewhere... but if same amount of wikimedians are
killed at a international rally the probability that a block ribbon, an
editnotice with a statement appear on many language edition is higher. it's
an attack at the community like it is a proposal of a law somewhere, and we
naturally react stronger.
It would be a bigger impact, if you think about it. You can get the
attention of billions of people every time they connect to the 5th or 6th
largest website in the world. Cynically speaking, if you also consider the
facts that it's about free knowledge and volunteers, than a mass murder at
at a wikimedian event might be more "effective" than at a discotheque or
the seat of a multinational conglomerate.
If i remember correctly. in the months before a certain wiki-event, many
people linked to radical activities were arrested in the area, in the same
country. So, when you organize an event, it's not just about safety but
also security. Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you
try to do it mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a
certain point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police
and so on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO.
but it should be done.
A.M.
I read/receive related craps
Vituzzu&diff=prev&oldid= 831949995>
on
a daily basis but it's hard to tell an idiot from a psychopath, so it may
become a risk for WMF offices.
Vito

Post by Andy Mabbett
I'm sure most of you will be aware of the unfortunate events at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ YouTube_headquarters_shooting
Without giving away anything that might reveal vulnerabilities, does
the WMF have contingency plans for such an incident? What about at
community events in the US, and elsewhere?
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
______________________________ _________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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wiki/Wikimedia-l
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
--
GN.
Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.comOut now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman
and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental
Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017. Order here.
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

Gnangarra

2018-04-06 04:01:01 UTC

Permalink

en:wp has a very good concept
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_stuff_beans_up_your_nose

" In our zeal to head off others' unwise action, we may put forth ideas
they have not entertained before. It may be wise not to caution against
such possibilities
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivation#Incentive_theories:_intrinsic_and_extrinsic_motivation>
. Prophylactic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophylactic> admonition
may trigger novel mischief. As the popular saying goes, "don't give 'em any
ideas". In other words, "
I can not speak to current practice at the WMF, but I can speak to
practice when I was there (ancient history, long ago, I know) when I say
that this is something that was carefully considered and there were
appropriate experts consulted at the time. Knowing the team there like i
do, I'm confident that those plans have not lapsed, and that they continue
to give appropriate (though not paranoiac) consideration to the realities
of the world.
I also know that when I was there, we would have considered it
inappropriate to share detail about those plans publicly, and I continue to
believe that is good practice.
Philippe
On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:19 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <

Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria ... agree, but
the risk assesement we are discussing here is not about safety, but
security. I am sure we might not use them all properly, I am also not a
native English speaker, but they are not the same concept, right?
Now, there were examples where looking at a dossier where the information
was about only the first one... that's the point here. I am talking about
events, the first email was about the place of the office... but the
motivation of a criminal act in both case can be overlapping, so they are
an unicum in a proper evaluation, IMHO. I am not expert in the field, but
if you start to assess the risk of someone harming you in SFO, that could
happen also in another place where many of the same people gather annually,
and that you also inform millions of people with sitenotices about it.
Now, I don't say that you must inform a lot. But if you are not the
police you are also not the fire brigade, but you wouldn't write in a
candidature nothing or simply "if there is a fire someone is paid to
extinguish it"... you would make more effort, and we do. If you don't want
to add another paragraph in the final document, rename it "safety and
security" but start to think organically about it.
Alex
Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria that needs to be
addressed when bidding for any WMF event, the people bidding are the better
placed to assess the reality of the local situation. Open bidding
processes enable others to also critically look at the options, ultimately
we are more at risk at home where feel comfortable then when travelling.
Every location has its risks, its undesirables, and crime, just getting a
taxi to and from the airport is a risk reality is its also more likely than
a terrorist event
On 6 April 2018 at 03:24, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
That's why people offwiki say they don't discuss this thing on meta or
here, because you always have an "answer" like this... this sarcasm. in
it's way, an example of an unhealthy community.
"Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you try to do it
mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a certain
point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police and so
on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO. but it
should be done."
that's it. it's not complicated... I know because of partially direct
experience... it's part of the world, when you are professional. You can't
prepare an event of certain scale and in a certain areas and ignore it in
the final dossier. There will be someone who take a look at that. So, who
talked about "solving terrorism"? just the one who wanted to make a joke.
Maybe people are not big babies and even without constant reminder they
don't exaggerate. You have no idea with whom I discuss this aspect so far,
what such wikimedians do in their real life. They are able to focus on the
point... the point is security and if you replied this way to this question
in many situations, you will be considered unprepared.
Alex
I heartily agree : build that firewall, and let Cisco pay for it !
Wait, what were you suggesting in your incipit ? Oh, right, "a way that's
rational, avoiding to create unnecessary panic of course".
I'd rather not ask of people organizing conventions (which is already
time-consuming by itself) that they solve terrorism in their town, which is
what the police are probably more suited for, if you don't mind ; as a
matter of fact, it is not one of their duties as convention holders, plain
and simple, and neither are they doctors, police officers, judges, jesters,
masseuses, nannies, yoga instructors, cooks, indentured servants, etc
(except of course if they are, which may happen).
So let's please not overreact, and stick to the current discussion
instead of having the next WikiConvention in a flying fortress with armed
guards, sniffing dogs, and metal detectors at every door…
Roger / Alphos
2018-04-05 18:40 GMT+02:00 Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l
I remember we discussed 2 or 3 years about this scenario with some
wikimedians off wiki. I strongly support to discuss at least once openly
about that. In a way that it's rational, avoiding to create unnecessary
panic... of course.
Despite the claimed neutrality of the communities, reality always bites.
Now, a terrorist can imagine that we will not put a black banner if someone
kill a lot of people somewhere... but if same amount of wikimedians are
killed at a international rally the probability that a block ribbon, an
editnotice with a statement appear on many language edition is higher. it's
an attack at the community like it is a proposal of a law somewhere, and we
naturally react stronger.
It would be a bigger impact, if you think about it. You can get the
attention of billions of people every time they connect to the 5th or 6th
largest website in the world. Cynically speaking, if you also consider the
facts that it's about free knowledge and volunteers, than a mass murder at
at a wikimedian event might be more "effective" than at a discotheque or
the seat of a multinational conglomerate.
If i remember correctly. in the months before a certain wiki-event, many
people linked to radical activities were arrested in the area, in the same
country. So, when you organize an event, it's not just about safety but
also security. Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you
try to do it mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a
certain point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police
and so on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO.
but it should be done.
A.M.
I read/receive related craps
Vituzzu&diff=prev&oldid= 831949995>
on
a daily basis but it's hard to tell an idiot from a psychopath, so it may
become a risk for WMF offices.
Vito

Post by Andy Mabbett
I'm sure most of you will be aware of the unfortunate events at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ YouTube_headquarters_shooting
Without giving away anything that might reveal vulnerabilities, does
the WMF have contingency plans for such an incident? What about at
community events in the US, and elsewhere?
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
______________________________ _________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Wikimedia-l
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
--
GN.
Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.comOut now: A.Gaynor, P.
Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental
Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017. Order here.
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
i/Wikimedia-l
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

--
GN.
Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again:
Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8*, UWAP, 2017. Order
here
<https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8>
.

James Alexander

2018-04-06 23:15:40 UTC

Permalink

Hi all,

Thanks for bringing this up. As you can imagine, we've been considering
this on an ongoing basis as well as specifically after the recent
shootings—and as Philippe and Gnangarra have pointed out, there are good
reasons we can't share complete specifics. Still, here's a bit on our
current strategy.

First, from an office perspective: we recently moved to a new building (as
was discussed here earlier), and the change is a significant improvement
from a security perspective. I will personally admit to some concerns in
how difficult the last one was to secure, but the new one has a multiple
person security team on duty 24/7. They have a complete plan for threats to
the building, including active shooters or bomb threats. They work closely
with us and have helped to train a group of staff to help in the case of
emergency. In addition, we've started looking at additional staff training
options after the recent attacks (one example is
https://www.alicetraining.com/, though we're looking at multiple).

Second, I'm sure many of you know Support & Safety's ***@wikimedia.org
system[1], which also plays an important role here. We have close
relationships with both the FBI and the local police department, and when
we receive reports such as Vito linked (threats to the office, to others,
or to themselves) we evaluate based on criteria we've worked with the FBI
on and pass even remotely credible/imminent threats to the appropriate
authorities quickly. Having dealt with a number of threats against the
office and against others, I have seen the quick and professional response
we get.

Third, events. These are obviously a bit more complicated, since it's hard
to give blanket advice when specific policies are very venue specific. That
said, this has been an increasing and ongoing focus of ours. While these
kinds of threats are rare for us, they are important to think about before
they happen. So far this work has included training modules[2] and a new
handy booklet for organizers that we're creating which will be shared and
tested with affiliates at the Wikimedia Conference in Berlin later this
month. Both in these materials and elsewhere, we've always recommended
that organizers get to know the security and management of their venue and
that's especially important when thinking about threats of harm at an
event. The first line of defense will be venue support and the local law
enforcement (911, 999 etc) but emergency@ will also be available to help
guide event organizers in crisis situations like that.

James

1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Threats_of_harm
2.
https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/training/support-and-safety/keeping-events-safe

*James Alexander*
Manager, Trust & Safety
Wikimedia Foundation

Post by Gnangarra
en:wp has a very good concept
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_stuff_beans_up_your_nose

theories:_intrinsic_and_extrinsic_motivation>

. Prophylactic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophylactic> admonition
may trigger novel mischief. As the popular saying goes, "don't give 'em

any

ideas". In other words, "
I can not speak to current practice at the WMF, but I can speak to
practice when I was there (ancient history, long ago, I know) when I say
that this is something that was carefully considered and there were
appropriate experts consulted at the time. Knowing the team there like i
do, I'm confident that those plans have not lapsed, and that they

continue

to give appropriate (though not paranoiac) consideration to the realities
of the world.
I also know that when I was there, we would have considered it
inappropriate to share detail about those plans publicly, and I continue

believe that is good practice.
Philippe
On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:19 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <

information

was about only the first one... that's the point here. I am talking

about

events, the first email was about the place of the office... but the
motivation of a criminal act in both case can be overlapping, so they

are

an unicum in a proper evaluation, IMHO. I am not expert in the field,

but

if you start to assess the risk of someone harming you in SFO, that

could

happen also in another place where many of the same people gather

annually,

and that you also inform millions of people with sitenotices about it.
Now, I don't say that you must inform a lot. But if you are not the
police you are also not the fire brigade, but you wouldn't write in a
candidature nothing or simply "if there is a fire someone is paid to
extinguish it"... you would make more effort, and we do. If you don't

want

to add another paragraph in the final document, rename it "safety and
security" but start to think organically about it.
Alex
Safety of attendees has for a long time been a criteria that needs to

addressed when bidding for any WMF event, the people bidding are the

better

placed to assess the reality of the local situation. Open bidding
processes enable others to also critically look at the options,

ultimately

we are more at risk at home where feel comfortable then when travelling.
Every location has its risks, its undesirables, and crime, just

getting a

taxi to and from the airport is a risk reality is its also more likely

than

a terrorist event
On 6 April 2018 at 03:24, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
That's why people offwiki say they don't discuss this thing on meta or
here, because you always have an "answer" like this... this sarcasm. in
it's way, an example of an unhealthy community.
"Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course you try to do

mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least at a certain
point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the police and

on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO. but it
should be done."
that's it. it's not complicated... I know because of partially direct
experience... it's part of the world, when you are professional. You

can't

prepare an event of certain scale and in a certain areas and ignore it

the final dossier. There will be someone who take a look at that. So,

who

talked about "solving terrorism"? just the one who wanted to make a

joke.

Maybe people are not big babies and even without constant reminder they
don't exaggerate. You have no idea with whom I discuss this aspect so

far,

what such wikimedians do in their real life. They are able to focus on

the

point... the point is security and if you replied this way to this

question

in many situations, you will be considered unprepared.
Alex
Il Giovedì 5 Aprile 2018 20:29, Alphos OGame <
I heartily agree : build that firewall, and let Cisco pay for it !
Wait, what were you suggesting in your incipit ? Oh, right, "a way

that's

rational, avoiding to create unnecessary panic of course".
I'd rather not ask of people organizing conventions (which is already
time-consuming by itself) that they solve terrorism in their town,

which is

what the police are probably more suited for, if you don't mind ; as a
matter of fact, it is not one of their duties as convention holders,

plain

and simple, and neither are they doctors, police officers, judges,

jesters,

masseuses, nannies, yoga instructors, cooks, indentured servants, etc
(except of course if they are, which may happen).
So let's please not overreact, and stick to the current discussion
instead of having the next WikiConvention in a flying fortress with

armed

guards, sniffing dogs, and metal detectors at every door…
Roger / Alphos
2018-04-05 18:40 GMT+02:00 Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l
I remember we discussed 2 or 3 years about this scenario with some
wikimedians off wiki. I strongly support to discuss at least once openly
about that. In a way that it's rational, avoiding to create unnecessary
panic... of course.
Despite the claimed neutrality of the communities, reality always bites.
Now, a terrorist can imagine that we will not put a black banner if

someone

kill a lot of people somewhere... but if same amount of wikimedians are
killed at a international rally the probability that a block ribbon, an
editnotice with a statement appear on many language edition is higher.

it's

an attack at the community like it is a proposal of a law somewhere,

and we

naturally react stronger.
It would be a bigger impact, if you think about it. You can get the
attention of billions of people every time they connect to the 5th or

6th

largest website in the world. Cynically speaking, if you also consider

the

facts that it's about free knowledge and volunteers, than a mass murder

at a wikimedian event might be more "effective" than at a discotheque or
the seat of a multinational conglomerate.
If i remember correctly. in the months before a certain wiki-event, many
people linked to radical activities were arrested in the area, in the

same

country. So, when you organize an event, it's not just about safety but
also security. Even if it is not nice to think about it, and of course

you

try to do it mostly in private, you should clearly write down at least

at a

certain point that you are preparing to all scenario, contacting the

police

and so on. it should be a paragraph in a candidature for an event, IMHO.
but it should be done.
A.M.
I read/receive related craps
Vituzzu&diff=prev&oldid= 831949995>
on
a daily basis but it's hard to tell an idiot from a psychopath, so it

may

become a risk for WMF offices.
Vito

Post by Andy Mabbett
I'm sure most of you will be aware of the unfortunate events at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ YouTube_headquarters_shooting
Without giving away anything that might reveal vulnerabilities, does
the WMF have contingency plans for such an incident? What about at
community events in the US, and elsewhere?
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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